The next generation inheriting the wealth allocates to alternatives three times as much as mine.

[30:55]

"I I was going to be glib and just you one word about AI, but um but to to follow on what Dan said, the next generation that is inheriting all the wealth, they are they're allocating to alts three times my generation. In one generation, you go from 6 to 18%."

[01:03]

"Um, uh, my family was selling, my dad was selling cash registers. Got to know Sam Walton. Um, launched, uh, uh, the barcode reading company. We, we didn't have the patents. We were just a distributor, but we ended up taking 90% of the market due to that relationship."

[20:38]

"We have never accepted capital from outside the 22 stakeholders over the nine family office, right? Except the last two years. And I believe because you have 69 trillion changing hands in the next 12 years to younger generations that if you don't know how to fund raise and crowdfund, find a new job."

Full transcript

All right, this last panel is our billion dollar plus family office panel. We're going to hear directly from top family office leaders who manage billions of dollars in capital each. Uh we'll keep this fast moving and then we networking cocktails after this. Um tomorrow we're going to have another 40 plus speakers on stage. So encourage you to stay with us through all day tomorrow.

Lots of panels, fireside chats again, uh etc. And then on Thursday again we have about 28 to 30 speakers on stage again. So hope you're enjoying the event so far. And why don't we start out with yourself and do a quick introduction. [clears throat] Second generation. Uh I want to thank Richard doesn't matter where he throws an event the people do come and uh he adds a lot of value to a lot of people.

I have a friend of mine reading his book now just uh grateful because it's very inefficient market. Uh, I started this firm 24 years ago. I was actually a high level basketball player at Fairfield up the street in Nevada. Um, uh, my family was selling, my dad was selling cash registers. Got to know Sam Walton. Um, launched, uh, uh, the barcode reading company.

We, we didn't have the patents. We were just a distributor, but we ended up taking 90% of the market due to that relationship. It was a billion dollar company. It was great. We bought 28 companies. I spun this kind of out of that and um, and now I've made it much bigger.

Here. We've distributed about 3 billion of debt and equity. Some big deals we've done, you might have heard of. We did Nashville Yards. It's the biggest development deal in Tennessee history. $4 billion mixeduse deal downtown.

Um we did a deal in Austin with the Bren family is a client of ours. They're the wealthiest real estate family in the country. A $70 billion family in Austin, 13,000 lots. We did a deal in Atlanta, West Midtown, $160 million high-rise. We're open to anything. We've done 15,000 subprime auto loans.

We've done every asset class, private equity, venture capital. Um, we're in a very challenging time. I wanted to say, uh, we're currently in deals such as a $380 million manufactured housing deal portfolio. We're financing 12, uh, self- storage facilities. We're taking a company here, richer, we met, CI, we're doing some Israel bonds for a quarter of a billion.

Um, so we got a lot of value out of that. We're very open, uh, to learning anything anybody has with some size. We're we're pretty much into hard assets and we think we're going into once in a-lifetime investment opportunity, but we think for investment sponsors, you have to really really get into reality today. And three rules should be take the money, take all the money, and take all the money now.

Thank you. Is that the end of the uh Yes. Not a lot. If I came up that Dan, thank you. Um, apparently we the Italians outnumber the rest of the demographics. Also, uh, ital son of Italian immigrants.

Father was highly decorated NYFD. Also a construction family. We built uh, the US Open Tennis Center, Whit Stone Bridge and Kennedy Airport when it was still called IDA Wild. Uh, I came by this by mistake. I was supposed to have a pro hockey career, another Italian athlete, but not only was I not good enough, but my father had a stroke and I had to change uh trajectory and uh protect what had been started and build from there.

And then from there we formed a ninef family multif family office with people from the same backgrounds first generation second generation immigrant Russian Italian Jewish families that I actually don't talk about uh but all the types of families that I see many of the ethnicities in this room that we understand and we know their backgrounds. Um we became pretty big and we did it through real estate of course as a majority of the portfolio. We did it through venture capital. We had a unique thesis of female founders.

Actually one of the few um direct LP investments we made in venture was not a female founder. It was Elon Musk were one of the first investors in SpaceX. Uh and we also did it through consumer package goods. CPG was a was a large allocation of ours until COVID two of the nine passed away and that started a discussion.

Want to thank Mitsy Purdue by the way because while I come from the other end of the family wealth spectrum. We I agree with everything she said about values about nextgen and about meritocracy once given the advantage. Right. So, thank you very much for a very interesting conversation, Mitsy. Great. Sounds like we have critical mass here of construction on the panel, too.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Uh, I'm I'm a co-founder, managing director of uh we invest in and partner with startups that are innovating in the real estate and construction sectors. Um, we manage technology investment capital for John uh who's founder chairman and CEO of um is a tech forward construction leader in the US does about 5 a.5 billion to six billion of construction work across the country annually.

Uh is a single shareholder of of that business. Uh in 2019 we um found this up to harness the strategic platform if you will of SUFFK to gain access to investment opportunities focusing on innovation um and also to create portfolio level uh broadly speaking uh portfolio value broadly speaking um since then we've backed over 35 companies uh that are bringing various parts of cost efficiency schedule acceleration risk reduction and sustainability to the construction production and and real estate world. Um along the way we've been able to generate uh kind of multi-dimensional returns uh both in terms of strategic return to the operating business as well as financial returns. So for you know families out there that are also operating large businesses you know we're happy to share learnings u and of course if you're uh working on a venture in real estate or construction we're happy to chat as well.

Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. Uh Evan, good afternoon. My name is although a lot of people think I'm Italian, I'm not. Um, we do not do construction.

So, I'm the black sheep up here. So, we generally focus on venture. I'm a partner in Beachwood Ventures. It's a third generation family office. Usually focused on early stage venture, clinical stage biotech. And certainly in today's time, you know that bioconvergence, everything from digital health to AI for anything healthcare related.

Um we started uh in addition to our family office, we started a holdco structure several years ago just to give exposure to our family and other families generally single family offices that want to exposure to investments in early stage venture. We're big believers in it as an asset class. Uh we think it out outperforms uh a lot of the other venture classes and then growth and everybody should have exposure to that uh offices in London, Israel, Zurich, uh Utah. So for us it's very much about where is great venture, where are great entrepreneurs, where are great opportunities and we look to back them.

Great. For um uh actually for Evan and Juan, since you both invest sometimes in software and venture capital, you know, you're oftentimes probably back in teams that don't yet have something that's commercialized, it's not brought to market yet, maybe has no revenue. Can you speak um each like a a top insight or like a critical part of your de-risisking strategy like that's at the core of your success in those areas that maybe some people who don't have that expertise would see as kind of a high-risisk venture to go into such companies? Do either of you have like a strategy or two you could share with other investors here in the room?

Um yeah, you know, this might seem a little simplistic, but it's a bet the jockey strategy because at preede and seed stage, you're there is no data, no metrics that you can evaluate. You're looking at track record. You're looking at the person who's going to lead and you're trying to decide when everything goes wrong and it will. Can this person see the other side?

Man, woman, group, what have you. The other way is is is this is a similar version of the idea is to um there are strength in numbers. For example, I'll give a real time. We are the only family office invested with um a a AI group out of Boston and looking at the group, looking at the domain expertise in various areas of AI, looking at the incubator model, looking at the skin in the game shared risk model gives us comfort regardless of any concept of whether these businesses are going to come come out and exit.

Also, when to strengthen numbers, don't bet on one horse. You have to have a lot in that race, 10, 20, 30. Maybe the most important idea. And if you're not ready to do that and you're just going to try and bet on one winner, don't do it. Right. Thank you.

So, oh, sorry. Oh, no. No. Go ahead. So, one, those are really important points. Bet on the jockey portfolio approach.

If you're doing venture, if someone comes and tells you about a great deal, you should know that they're probably invested in 30 other deals. So, do not go into that one thinking, "Wow, this is going to be the one. It's going to be great." Um, definitely a portfolio approach when it comes to comes to early stage venture.

I would say just one other point in addition to that. Um, as far as the actual technologies or companies that we are looking for, we look for things that are really not correlated to the market. Right? So at that point this is early stage venture. The market to us is just noise. By the time anything goes to market and anything we're doing it we could be two or three cycles away from where we are here.

So it's a very you know patient uh patient approach. You have to understand that. Um but we're looking for I like to say versus disruptive technologies constructive things that really you know healthcare related mental health related things that can change the world but things that there is going to be a need for no matter what and we are seeing that with you know with AI today drugs that are being developed medical devices diagnostics that could not even be developed uh several years ago so things that there's going to be a need for not oh I'm trying to develop something and we'll go out and sell it but you know what can change, you know, early stage cancer diagnostics, things like that. Great.

Juan, yeah, I I agree with everything that's um said, just adding to a little bit, um on the early very early stage side, obviously not a lot of metrics to go on. So, we're looking for founder market fit and later on the business will demonstrate uh more product market fit. Um particularly in our sector around construction tech is still so new that it's kind of hard to find that repeat serial entrepreneur right that started two companies and have exited for a certain value in construction tech domain. So we've had to find a way to kind of assemble and pair up the talents and the attributes to create successful teams.

You may have someone who understand construction really well and maybe uh paired up with someone else on the founding team that knows how to build software product and maybe have exited a company but from a different vertical, a different category. Um what I'll say about kind of founder characteristics is two things that come to mind having been kind of in the venture investing world for about 15 years now. Um one is um the ability to pick the right market at the right time. The sort of the why now is almost more important than the what and what I found is that good founders are able to continuously pick the right market but more importantly pick those markets at the right time.

In other words, the vintage year cohort of companies that are started during that time frame roughly in that sector have a higher chance of success than uh companies that are started in other time frames. Right? So you can kind of normalize it and analyze it in in that factor. The second thing I'll say is that um uh founder attributes uh around d-risking the ability to be a really good risk manager right the the the choice to become an entrepreneur is is risky but once someone has decided to be a founder CEO of a company then their job is to manage risk and so good entrepreneurs able to see uh uh the company as a series of d-risking experiments they're raising money to get to the next inflection point to run enough experiments to identify certain answers in order to validate a thesis and then they will adjust based on those answers for the next phase.

So in fundraising they're effectively going to the next round's investor. So say you're raising a seed good entrepreneur is able to go to the next round investor and say what are the milestone you're looking for in the series A and then work backwards so that the seed round is financed appropriately and experiments are designed appropriately for them to get to the series A stage. Great. Yes, Richard.

The question I was just I love the idea about the timing especially as it as it pertains to venture equity because I think timing is everything in a lot of parts of our lives. But definitely right now in a high interest rate environment for venture equity, it's all about the timing. But the question is if you're asset class agnostic, should you be considering venture equity right now? I I think that's a no I don't just because you do it should you keep doing it even if it's not appropriate even if the timing is not right.

So go with your gut. Oh well yeah they the go with your gut is something I think people like us live by. But in a high inflationary environment you haven't seen since 1982. I'll give you my answer. Someone asked me, "Hey, should I um take that next venture job or should I go back to business school for two years?"

He asked me this about eight months ago. I said, "Go back to business school. Nothing's going to happen in the next two years." High inflation mixed with recession. What? It's high inflation mixed with a recession, a deep recession.

Yeah. I I actually I in December I did a little predictions for our group and everyone and I said stagflation is here. If you don't remember it from 81, 82, 79, get ready. You're going to have a redux of it. And back to I I didn't speak on the VC side. Unless you're a master networker, can find another Elon Musk, we've made about 100 VC investments.

It's just so risky unless you can grab assets. I mean, you really don't know what these what's going on. Very risky. Yeah. I'd say uh frankly, I would say this is a riskier time than at the onset of COVID. I mean that.

And hate to say it, I thought tragically human the human capital aside and and and the human cost aside, those two first two years were the greatest opportunity for an asset class agnostic investor probably for the last 30 maybe since 2009. Hate to say that it's not a popular belief especially when there's human tragedy, but it's true. Now the opposite. We have massive debt bubbles and I think we're going to see total industries transformed and consolidated o over the next two or three years.

It's it's it's it's going to be a very painful nashing of the teeth, but we'll come out of it, but it's we're going to have to reset a lot of a lot of asset classes. I think if we go back to what uh Juan was saying a couple minutes ago about managing risk and timing, uh we saw Todd in the fireside chat earlier today talk about how he saw competition was flooding into his T-Mobile stores. You know, zip codes that he was protected in and said, "This is the time to sell. I scaled to 150 locations.

I need to have my exit now." And so, he was watching the risk on that timing. And then, Juan, you're focused on construction tech. It's not just tech and AI. It's not real estate tech. It's construction tech.

It's a niche within a niche. And I think that was the point we're trying to make on the oneliner panel. If you have somebody in a niche and say, "Hey, we do real estate or we do multif family." Maybe you have a re really unique way of doing that, but you need to communicate that because unless it's a niche within a niche, you get lost in a crowd of 700 people at an event or in a busy email inbox.

So, I just wanted to make sure and emphasize that. And uh Dan, why don't we start with you and just see who else wants to comment on this? But right now, it is more challenging to raise capital and find partners. So, what are the deals that are getting done? Are they distressed capital deals? Are they deals with collateral behind them?

Are they deals with people that have known you for a decade and it's really hard to get other deals done? I mean, what what deals are course? Of course, it's going to be distressed deals, which people are having a hard time finding. It's going to be thematic spaces like the biggest crisis facing us today is affordability, housing crisis.

So, we're doing a $400 million recap on manufactured housing lots in Dallas and Houston where it's you're just the consumer saving so much and getting so much more. So, you have to look out ahead. We've all been waiting for the distress, but there's also a self- storage model we like. We're financing 10 of um there's opportunities to recap companies or large portfolios onshore offshore.

So there's a lot of arbitrage just because capital is so tight and people are want to stress and cheap stuff and it's just you have to create value in these transactions and you have to go in and create the value negotiating with lenders and creditors or whatever. Right. Right. Yeah. If uh the multiples used to be three, four, five, six times IBIDA for a small to mediumsiz company, like we heard Todd from Canpreneur say this morning, uh maybe now it's going to be 2, three, four times Ebida, or maybe it's going to be some special workout terms or seller financing.

Um with one of our club members, the last four deals have gotten done or all seller financing. Don't do any bank debt on their real estate. It's harder to get foreclosed on. The rate's better and it's a seven-page agreement instead of 107. And it's financable. You know what can you close?

What's financable, right? It's tough. Yeah, but seller financing has a cap because that'll undermine their cap stack. You're really not doing $50 million deals with seller financing. I I just recently spoke to 41 lenders on a t for us a tiny deal. I I we would never even it was strategically important.

41 lenders, two offshore in Japan. I've never I have never done that in 10 years combined. Right. And the movement in debt especially middle market and regional bank balance sheet especially is 400 basis points. Recourse forget non-reourse doesn't exist and that doesn't exist for Blackstone either because they just put up collateral on their uh warehouse line to the at the REIT level.

So if it doesn't ex exist for Blackstone, it definitely isn't going to exist for CJ. Um, and then they're redlining asset classes. Forget office. If you have an office, wear a sandwich board on the corner and try and give it away for a dollar because that's what RBS did. The Royal Bank, sorry, RBC, they just gave away 50% of a Park Avenue office building for $1 to their partner.

$1. They said, "This is so bad that we don't want to be on the hook for the taxes and the capex." That's how bad the asset class was. Not the building. Building is actually a pretty good building with Boston properties, but the asset class is uninvestable. Now, to his point, to Dan's point of creating value, what do you take that is worthless and create worth in it.

That is the next two years is looking at the next life of whatever hard asset. And and it's not just real estate. It is really not a lot's going to happen right now unless you have maybe you know 10 billion in private credit and you want to put out on the street at 10 at 10% you could do things right you have a lot of competition but you can do things but if you are a significant portfolio owner of hard assets you better start thinking what is it going to be in two years because it's not going to be the same thing and and really that's the way we're looking at everything doing across the board but in fact sorry I'm Sorry to to bo because this is such an important thing that Dan touched on about creating value in the future. We have never accepted capital from outside the 22 stakeholders over the nine family office, right?

Except the last two years. And I believe because you have 69 trillion changing hands in the next 12 years to younger generations that if you don't know how to fund raise and crowdfund, find a new job. Excellent conversation. Thank you. Um I I'll try to add maybe kind of a secular theme perspective and then maybe kind of a stage perspective as well.

Uh and I'll limit it to kind of private private market investing. So we don't do public. Um uh in terms of secular which uh Richard just mentioned kind of why focus on uh an area like construction when the overall venture market is challenged. Um consider the following. Let me let me maybe give you three lenses. There's a cost lens which is the cost of construction's gone up significantly relative to value created by the real estate that's uh created through construction.

So there's a cost equation issue where that's not sustainable to continue to build the way we've built in the past. The second is demographic about 650,000 skilled labor job openings that are unfilled in construction and one in five construction workers over the age of 55. So there's a retirement wave uh that's coming and so there's a labor constraint. And then the third lens probably is around psychoraphic which is the adoption of technology from the younger experts that are coming onto job sites working in the industry and that are technative right we want to use applications we want to use software to to do our daily workflow.

So cost economic demographic and psychoraphic are kind of secular drivers for why now why technology is needed finally in construction. And then of course if you add on the technology enablers, cloud sensors and cameras, AI and large scale data analytics and highspeed internet connectivity. All of these factors converge to finally bring technology into the physical world to make building smarter, to make job sites smarter, to enable workers to access information without having to go back to the job site trailer and log into an app. They can do it right through a text box, right?

An AI chatbot. Um from a stage perspective just shifting gears early stage versus late stage very different picture right now the latest stage environment has been reset the uh Q1 2024 32% of all venture capital financings done in the past quarter are down rounds right meaning the new valuation set by the the round is lower than the last post money valuation of the previous round in the series B stage or later stage deals it's 40% of those rounds are down rounds Okay. Uh series A it's about 20%. If you look at the seed stage market which is a very very early stage those evaluations actually have been going up.

Why? Well fewer deals are being done remember but the deals that are being done what are those deals? They're the best teams going after the best space with the best idea. So in the period of capital abundance 2021 you would have five companies going after a particular space doing the same thing right all getting funded. Now you've got one company getting funded with the best team, the best idea and the best execution.

So fast forward five years from now, that company will dominate that particular space. So the early stage environment is quite different and there's still opportunities. But for those that are looking for a little bit of de-risking, look towards later stage where valuations have been reset pretty hard. Very interesting. Survival of the fittest, right? Surv.

But at the A and the B, there's more consolidation from other of the leaders in their sectors that they're they're they're scooping up those others. And the others are secondaries. Best time to invest in secondaries in history. Best time A and B. A and B, not C. Yes.

To tow's point. That was the literally the point that I would make. No, I I agree. If you're hearing it up here, there are a lot of great we do a lot of early stage venture, but there are unbelievable secondary opportunities right now. Now, I think you nailed it on the head. There are, as companies are staying private and the markets are, you know, pushing off IPOs, you know, there are great opportunities.

You have to find the right ones there. We also believe in investing in in the infrastructure of secondaries, ATS's, and liquidity platforms. There's going to be a lot of liquidity um and a lot of platforms that help create that liquidity for for secondaries but you know we went into you know guesty probably maybe a little over a year ago at a you know a steep discount and Apex let it and KKR just came in and and let a a follow on round and to me I think that's a huge opportunity to when you speak about de-risisking it's not only but just remember not just d-risisking on the entrepreneur but making sure that when you're d-risking going into venture, you're doing it alongside or with or in the right investors that know the companies really well because there is a lot of lack of transparency and you know when it comes to secondary so make sure you're getting in. We have literally seen where people are brokers are offering back your own shares.

You know, they're buying and selling your own shares. It's amazing venture deals. Make sure there's someone with more money than you when you go in. [laughter] Don't be the big guy. I got really That's funny. By the way, anyone knows what ATS is, alternative trading system?

It's it's the future of tokenization and liquidity. And to his point, we didn't meet, by the way. You you came on a little bit like, hi, how are you? Um, the idea of liquidity is going to change the venture game and the stage. And it's all and it's really all everyone's talking about is the mode the modalities of liquidity.

So, uh, for CJ, um, just in general like you to comment on some people come to our events and they're raising capital for medical practice or something in the tech world and they say, "Oh, how come real estate comes up?" Like every day of the event, people talk about real estate. What I found is that people that made their money, whether it's in barcode scanners or stem cells or venture capital work, they have a percentage of their money in real estate. So, they're kind of they care what's going on with real estate.

They typically are investing in real estate. Can you comment on that and kind of what percentage of your families or your clients families capital is in real estate because that does come up when people come to our event the first time. They say, "Oh, I wish they didn't talk about real estate so much." But part of it is understanding the psyche of an ultra-wealthy investor.

They're going to have exposure to the real estate markets in almost every single case. And it depends when you met them. First, you're a cowboy when you get your money. Then you learn and you start going to things that are a little simpler that you can explain. I wish we were that smart. I think we're still a little too cowboy.

Well, you you hooked up and made some hits early and that gets you some confidence. Well, you know, I listen I I as mentioned I come from an immigrant family. We're part of a group of immigrant families. Obviously, real estate is your default. Let's not be honest. Then you start to look in the subset of that to raise money for.

Well, yeah. Because we understand it. I'm not going to try and pretend I'm I'm someone I'm not. Um, but then you get into the subset and you start matching psychographic societal trends to those hard assets and you're like, well, maybe multif family is not a default. Maybe, you know, maybe we should um derisk by having three sets of asset risk classes from core core plus all the way down to value ad or even development.

Something we don't do. We're too conservative, but still relevant. Still, I would say that this is going to be the toughest 18 months. It's going to be barbed. It's going to be the best of times and the worst of times in real estate. Depends on where you are in the liquidity time frame of your of your portfolio.

We're investing in a self-defense company that patent technology with guns for training and turning office into shooting rangers. Uh technology, stuff like that. Um, and you'd be surprised, 40% of trained military will miss a guy from 5t away if they're shooting at you. You'd be surprised how deficient the training is. And citizens now more than ever need training.

If I'm running away, that's important. I I just want to make one point on the real estate and and it goes to really understanding who you're investing in, who you're investing with, right? So, if you came up to me and said, "Oh, I have a real estate." We really don't do real estate. The the joke is that we derisk our early stage venture with our biotech investing, right?

And we do biotech very well. We know it very well. We have 25 MD PhDs that are constantly doing that. But if you're looking to invest, know exactly who you're coming up to and what you're looking for and making sure that if you are coming and investing with someone, they know real estate very well if you're going to do that or know biotech if you want to be in that.

Awesome. Great. Thanks. CJ, were you going to say something? You know I sorry I was going to say I think everyone in this room room knows something or even a lot about real estate. The difference is who your lenders are and who's your capital source.

That's it. The be the the best connect relationships with capital either debt or equity wins. Fairly straightforward. So we had some other questions that we didn't get a chance to get to. For example, you know, what makes a difference if something get your an attent your attention in your inbox? Any million-dollar piece of advice for investors in the room?

Uh, and we're running out of time, but we can just go down the line for any last comments, anything else you wanted to share with the audience or anything that you had prepared an answer for that you really wanted to get across to the room before we wrap up the panel. Uh, when I started meeting very wealthy investors, I wouldn't pitch them deals. I would try to introduce them to other wealthy guys and their stuff when I was young. You know, try to add value and expand their networks.

They like that. I think you should approach people instead of just slamming deals on them. Try to get to know them because if someone likes you, um you'd be surprised how far that can go. Uh like anything in life. Yeah, it's interesting. Lots of times people come to me and say, "Hey, who do you know who would fund this deal?"

There's so much context needed around it. First of all, I don't know anything about the deal. I don't know the team yet. We haven't met in person yet. I'm not sure what your preference is. There's there's like 50 different things that you need to know before you can say, "Oh, yeah, John would love to do your deal."

Uh, etc. So, I think that's one of the challenges of running an investor club and being at these events and the whole point of them. Uh, CJ, is there you want to share? I I was going to be glib and just you one word about AI, but um but to to follow on what Dan said, the next generation that is inheriting all the wealth, they are they're allocating to alts three times my generation.

In one generation, you go from 6 to 18%. That is a massive move when 69 trillion is changing hands. If you don't know what this generation wants and the generation I'm speaking of is millennials or more specifically millennial Henry's Henry's anyone knows high earners not rich yet right you got 500,000 from wheel got and yet you have a you have a student debt you have student debt you have housing debt and you have to go to Aspen and Cloud9 and shoot uh a champagne all the time. Um, if you don't know how they speak and that's not transactional, it's relationshipbased, it's going to be a bumpy road.

Um, I would encourage everybody to think about time horizon as your competitive advantage, right? Particular families, family wealth, long-term persistent wealth. You'd be surprised how much of the world is sort of short-term minded, how much the investment world is short-term minded and operating world as well, right? Next quarter, next year, and next three years. If you're thinking on 5, 10, 20 year horizons, they're going to be very few people that'll compete with you.

So, think about if you're building relationship with an entrepreneur, for example. Yeah, maybe the first venture didn't work out and you put a small amount of money in, but guess what? You supported that individual when no one else did. And uh you know, that person's going to come back to you for the second company they start. And that might be the billion dollar outcome.

Um so again think about time horizon and how that can be a competitive differentiation for you to access opportunities. Yeah 100% agree. That's great. Um so I think the my closing would be alignment of one your core values you know and your investment objectives right when you speak about timing we are very patient long-term we look to do multiple investing.

There are families in single family offices that want to invest alongside us or with us and you know I say if they're looking for IRRa like I'm not your guy I'm not you know we may give you zero zero and then a 100x right our goal is very long-term our goal is you know double bottom line everything has to have some sort of impact so really know who you're investing in who you're investing with understand that your values align and that your timeline aligns and that what we're trying to do and your ultimate goal versus the other investors or people in venture and that our goals are all aligned as well. Really interesting. Great. Awesome.

Uh let's give a round our panelist round of applause. Please listen to this full panel. Join the family office club by visiting familyoffices.com. We look forward to seeing you at our next live event.